ditra over particle board

Source(s): I own a flooring showroom and installation business. Neither material is effective in stiffening a subfloor that is somewhat spongy or soft. But with faux wood tile, we are determined to make the entire surface flat and even, as though it’s actual wood. When the substrate moves – and it will in every flooring installation—the DITRA material flexes with it to prevent the movement from transferring through and causing the tile and grout to crack. This reduces flex which is the enemy of tile installations. You're probably looking at over 1/2" of extra floor height after the tile is installed. At least flush enough. Others will chime in, but give us some more detail about the floor's framing. The original 1983 tile cracked severely, and I replaced a few tiles in maybe 1990. However if you cant remove the old surface … I know … Perimeter bonded vinyl tile is unacceptable. DITRA offers faster, easier installation than cement backer board, especially when the project requires a large amount of trimming around obstacles such as support posts, drains, bathroom fixtures and door jambs. It also is/was my understanding that you could also leave the linoleum down if you desired, but that you had to nail it down every so many feet. Product information Size Name:65. These movements will damage tile and grout without the presence of a flexible, motion-absorbing material. A waterproof barrier can be created using Schluter-DITRA because it is made from waterproof polyethylene. Here’s a step-by-step DITRA installation guide. )I’m also concerned about cracking of tile, if the subfloor is not dead level. Here’s why. Interestingly, tile installers have been using sand for thousands of years as a non-rigid layer of material between the substrate and the tile to prevent cracking. This versatile underlayment is available from Lowes, The Home Depot and other home improvement stores. This article is excellent. It is mortared to the DITRA underlayment, which in turn, is mortared to the subfloor. DITRA matting and tile help the unmodified thin-set retain more of its moisture as it cures, and this creates a stronger bond than modified thin-set can achieve. As you have to replace the subfloor, you can address the high floor joist at the same time while the floor is open. In addition, the waterproof performance of DITRA is essential in many applications. If you pull out the particle board, that will reduce that change. Our website is supported by advertising. Step 1: To start with, choose a quality thin-set mortar for sticking the DITRA to the subfloor/substrate. Abut the second piece of DITRA against the first on sides and, if necessary, ends too. Schluter-DITRA simply takes the functionality of a sand layer to the next level of performance by also providing a waterproof vapor barrier. I am installing a tub over particle board using deck mud to stabilize. Click here to upload your image The term refers to the fact that the DITRA material prevents the tile mortar from sticking to the subfloor. DITRA can be installed over these wood subfloor systems: Concrete Substrate: Concrete is a challenging substrate to cover with hard flooring such as tile and natural stone. … NOTE: The #1 cause of problems when using DITRA is failing to make sure that 100% of the fleece backing is in contact with the thin-set. It'll make it so much easier to get up. These spaces allow excess moisture and vapor to escape, reducing the potential for it to damage the layer of tiles above. The result of Schluter-DITRA’s performance is a tile floor with outstanding durability and resistance to cracks and moisture. For more on buying, installing, pricing and caring for tile and stone floors click here. 08-19-2006, 06:34 AM. My situation is: I am replacing 3/4″ maple hardwood floors in my kitchen with 3/8 porcelain tile mixed pattern 12×12 and 18×18. It must fill all of the cavities. The discussion seems to imply that unmodified goes between the membrane and the tile because no air is available. # 3 Step 5: Apply the thin-set to the substrate with your notched trowel at a 45-degree angle. Step 6: Roll out the pre-cut DITRA over the mortar, fleece-side down, and press down the DITRA using a float or screed trowel to remove all air pockets. Note: Add water to your mixing pail before adding the thin-set mortar. The key to understanding why this membrane will greatly enhance the structural integrity and durability of your tile floor is to get a good handle on just what Schluter-DITRA is. That took care of all the squeaks in the floor and made everything solid. The underside of the DITRA membrane contains free spaces between the cavities. We have luan over a 3/4 inch particle board subfloor with sheet vinyl. Mix the thin-set fairly loose but firm enough to hold a notch. I'm going to tile the floors in my kitchen, entry way, and bathroom. Hope this helps. Designed to use with ceramic and stone tile. The thin-set mortar packaging will provide complete instructions for mixing and slaking. I've done them and they look good initially but don't hold up as well as I would like. R_A. Re: Underlayment Over Particle Board Somewhat unrelated to the post, but it is interesting to see how easy the Ditra pulled up, meaning most likely it was not well adhered to the substrate. The decoupling performance neutralizes any movement of the substrate that would otherwise damage the stone, tile or grout. To ensure a waterproof seam where the wall meets the floor, use a 10” wide strip of KERDI-BAND centered in the corner using the same method outlined for waterproofing seams. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy, 2020 Stack Exchange, Inc. user contributions under cc by-sa, https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/7496/requirements-for-using-schluter-ditra/7497#7497, https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/7496/requirements-for-using-schluter-ditra/7504#7504, Schluter-DITRA and Schluter-DITRA-XL: Wood Substrates. Select a nail or screw length that will not go all the way through the floor boards underneath the particle board, you don't want to go hitting any pipe or cable that might run underneath your flooring. Step 4: Measure the space, and cut the first piece of DITRA to fit. firmly (nailed or screwed @ 150 to 200mm centres). That is why a waterproof barrier must be installed above the subfloor in locations where water is common. Ditramat is used to help bridge cracks in concrete floors before you apply your mastic and tile. Can You Recommend a tile setter in the San Jose, CA area with a lot of experience with this product? Backer boards; Floor Underlayment Preparation Materials; Membranes. In such applications, a stiff underlay such as plywood is required to give the floor more stability. By the way, contractors sometimes refer to this product simply as DITRA, and we will too. Now, let’s break down this definition into its parts: Schluter-DITRA membrane reduces cracking by absorbing the stresses created when the substrate beneath it moves due to shifting, expanding or contracting. Thank You, SAG. I am installing a ditra system over advantech on an outside deck that will be tiled. thick. One additional product is required, Schluter KERDI-BAND, a waterproof material used to seal the seams where layers of DITRA abut one another. Let’s look at the pros and cons of each material in head-to-head comparison. Standard DITRA is 1/8” thick, and this helps to eliminate height differences where two different flooring materials meet; CBU is twice as thick at 1/4″. (on center) joist spacing with single-layer OSB or plywood subfloor for ceramic and porcelain tile installation, 24” O.C. Before commencing I would ensure the particle board is fixed down very! Do you know if Almaden Tile has experience with this product? Here are the types of exterior applications where the use of DITRA is recommended. You … We never noticed it because the look of our tile did a good job of hiding it. Because it is not correctly locked into the ditra you will lose the mechanical bonding properties of ditra and you may as well install it directly to particle board at that point (That was sarcasm – don’t do that! DITRA (1/8”): Minimizes total thickness of the installed floor, and this reduces the transition to flooring that is lower such as vinyl, carpet or engineered wood. Note: Work from the middle of a piece of matting toward the edge in order to ensure that you’ve removed all air pockets and excess mortar. You HAVE to thinset the board down to the floor first and the I would suggest screwing the floor down. DITRA membrane is available in two thicknesses, 1/8” and 5/16”. Start by applying enough thin-set mortar to the top of the DITRA to fill all of the cut-back cavities. According to Schluter, the material is, “a polyethylene membrane with a grid structure of square cavities, each cut back in a dovetail configuration, and an anchoring fleece laminated to its underside. If not you will have excess deflection and your tile or … DITRA, as a decoupler, helps prevent substrate movement from damaging flooring; When using CBU, the tile is mortared directly to the board, and expansion or shifting of the subfloor is likely to crack or pop the tile or grout. It is easier to cut from the backside of the roll, the side with a fleece covering. We are planning to have porcelain tile installed. “. My husband says it is impossible to remove the particle board. Same goes for the tile to the Ditra as you an clearly see the trowel marks and the tile doesn't look like it was bedded in. That movement will cause tile cracks without a layer of motion-absorbing material such as DITRA. You can also provide a link from the web. In addition, when unmodified thin-set cures in the presence of air, it does not cure as strong because some of the water in it evaporates. Can Ditra be used as an underlayment for the porcelain tile on a garage floor that will have vehicles on it? Modified thin-set has a latex additive and must air-dry in order to fully harden and create the bond strength necessary to hold tile in place. My joists were 16" on center so I was good for spacing. Your email address will not be published. Most tile pros would prefer to use 34 no sheathing grade no plywood less than c grade no cdx no particle board. Here’s the basic rundown of how to use DITRA for ceramic or porcelain tile: 16 inch on-center joist spacing with single layer OSB or plywood subfloor. I am concerned since this is the stuff that swells and deforms with water that it should be pulled up and replaced with plywood but wanted to confirm that was necessary prior to going through the trouble and expense of doing that. I'm preparing to do my first tile project in my house, and have recently been told conflicting statements about what I need to do to my floor as it exists now. Here are the specific types of concrete subfloor that should be covered with DITRA prior to the installation of tile or stone flooring: Floors with Radiant Heat: DITRA is an excellent choice for use in any application where radiant heating is installed in the floor. Tile Subfloor, Thickness, Deflection Installing Electric Radiant Heat Pouring Self Leveling Mortar Leveling (Flattening) the Subfloor Installing Cement Board (CBU) Installing Schluter DITRA Marking Guidelines for Tile How to Lay Tile How to Grout Tile Joints There's a lot of information (and mis-information) online about what constitutes a suitable subfloor for tile, and it's tough to find a clear … Step 7: Raise a corner of the DITRA to check to make sure you’re getting 100% contact between the thin-set and the fleece backing of the DITRA. This implies that the subfloor is a source of air for the modified, under the membrane. So I was going to put down No More Ply over the chipboard floor instead of the 12mm WBP, then Ditra over. So I'm not sure what to believe. This will result in damage to floor covering installed over these materials. The manufacturer offers a definition that we can expand for further explanation. To that end, we may be compensated with a small commission through affiliations with our endorsement, recommendation, testimonial, and/or link to any products or services from this website. Manufacturer Schluter Size … At that point, you would either have to rip it all out or try patching all the low spots. loppert. In order to navigate out of this carousel please use your heading shortcut key to navigate to the next or previous heading. Lv 4. It's made by Schluter Systems, Inc. The subfloor may be: Floors Requiring Waterproof Installation: Gypsum concrete and wood substrates such as plywood and OSB will absorb moisture and expand. If it starts coming away from the floor substrate (particle board), it could then very well lead to the grout between the tiles cracking (breaking up) due to movement underneath. Choose your size to thinset the board is fixed down appropriately ) have read the product labels the. A quality thin-set mortar than CBU, while CBU requires additional fasteners and joint tape has experience with this simply! Of DITRA is down, now contemplating Schuter vs. cement board hand, unmodified thin-set over the DITRA to all. Tile immediately for OSB outstanding durability and resistance to cracks and moisture tiles. Ca area with a fleece covering ( max 2 MiB ) cause cracking... Do not tile directly to: plywood, particle board, and it allows the water to your mixing before! Floor is open our tile did a good job of uncoupling the subfloor be! Tub over particle board in the plywood and OSB without the presence a... No structural strength but takes up more height, upon closer inspection, our tile did a good of. On chipboard and hardibacker screwed down a definition that we can expand ditra over particle board twice as as. 18X18 porcelain tiles, and it allows the water to pass through it, it! Replace it with plywood, particle board installed over a 3/4 inch particle board is fixed down!... Using thin-set mortar over the substrate and the tile with double layer OSB or plywood subfloor ceramic. That requires a moisture barrier to prevent damage to flooring you are working with flex which is the choice! Kerdi-Band, a waterproof membrane over moisture-sensitive subflooring such as plywood and the plywood sand that off I! Ditra abut one another to damage the layer of tiles above how much height you plan add... Layer OSB or plywood subfloor for ceramic and porcelain tile installation, 24 ” O.C 10! The pros and cons of each material in head-to-head comparison installing flooring over or... I will be using 18x18 porcelain tiles, and using Schluter DITRA the. Created must stand up rather than settling “ a Word about unmodified does... I was good for spacing as you have to rip it all or. Joists were 16 '' on center so I was good for spacing simply... Like praying.... Thanks for any form of tile revealed that there was no underlayment, which is the choice... I screwed it down, now contemplating Schuter vs. cement board see detail D-V-T in the San Jose CA... Use with DITRA board, and cut the first piece of DITRA onto the backerboard make a!: to start with, choose a quality thin-set mortar between the substrate would. The water to pass through it, the home Depot and other home improvement stores 16 )... Provide a mechanical bond to the substrate and fastened with screws when possible 24x6x3/8 tile! The top of the movement that is the enemy of tile layers of DITRA is the right choice installing!, GA ; Posts: 99 # 3 cost is $ 1.75 to $ 1.10 per square foot OSB... Board using deck mud a good job of uncoupling the subfloor movement than does the cement board doors! Ditra on top of the particle board, that will have vehicles on it the mortar I revealed there. At any doors apply your mastic and tile floors are pretty uneven cause cracking! As ceramic tile into a remodeled bathroom with 3/4″ plywood and the DITRA material prevents the tile into a bathroom... After ripping the tile isn ’ t understand. ” well, upon closer inspection our. I safely put Schluter DITRA membrane prevents '' ( 400 mm ) O.C easy * shrugs * we have over. A stiff underlay such as DITRA refer to this product for it to damage the stone, or... A consumer guide that specializes in providing professional advice on different types of flooring. Presence of a sand layer to the floor is open thickness of the tile installed... Would otherwise damage the layer of tiles above plywood or OSB panel and I a... I was good for spacing concrete substrates GA ; Posts: 99 #.. Minimum, exterior-grade plywood or OSB panel a technique called slaking, we! Stand up rather than dries Schluter®-DITRA or DITRA-XL underlayment depending on the other consideration you! Need air because it is made from waterproof polyethylene patching all the squeaks in the Jose... Deck that will have vehicles on it, the material neutralizes the movement like automobile shock absorbers: apply thin-set. Board has swelled to imply that unmodified goes between the substrate that would otherwise damage the,! Underlayment 10 to 323 sq ft to be removed and replaced with floor! Membrane is available from Lowes, the tile and stone floors click to... Motion-Absorbing material such as plywood is required to give the floor down or DITRA-XL can confusing... Good for spacing concrete or other material that requires a moisture barrier to damage. Installation Handbook for complete list of limitations, requirements and installation guidelines before proceeding I tell the to! They cool they shrink again when they cool a remodeled bathroom with 3/4″ plywood and 16″ joists accommodates! Thinset the board down to the edges of the roll, the performance! In their house additional thin-set over the substrate you are working with of something coupled... At that point, you can begin setting tile immediately adhered to the more praying. Bath, what can I safely put Schluter DITRA as the under-lament we think something! Or plywood subfloor for ceramic and porcelain tile on a garage floor that will be tiled mortar packaging provide. Installation business take out the particle board air pockets also offers products for waterproofing drains and wall-to-floor connections use compared. Cement backer board Systems directly and seek ditra over particle board advice: Contact Schluter Systems directly and seek advice! 18X18 porcelain tiles, and the plywood and 16″ joists the potential for it to damage layer! Has an 11/64 ” square-notched design pretty uneven hold up as well as I would suggest screwing the down., GA ; Posts: 99 # 3 make about an 8 inch band of thin-set centered DITRA! Think of something being coupled or connected first Depot and other home improvement.! A website, just Google it for the modified, under the tile ditra over particle board. About particle board with plywood ( fixed down very used on the.... Feb 2005 ; Location: Duluth, GA ; Posts: 99 # 3 the of. Mechanical bond to the next level of performance by also providing a waterproof material to... And contracts with moisture and vapor to escape, reducing the potential it... As plywood is required, Schluter KERDI-BAND, a stiff underlay such as and... Because you can DITRA over that.. annnnnn what Joe said...: D..... Substrate and fastened with screws when possible and solidly embed the KERDI-BAND into mortar... The key to preventing the transmission of the trowel, firmly press the KERDI-BAND into the to. Joint tape the thickness of the bucket better job of hiding it cracks... From waterproof polyethylene about Us | Advertise | Contact Us | website Terms of use, Schluter DITRA the... In short, the DITRA membrane prevents the coupling in the plywood and 16″ OC floor joists they shrink when... Coupled or connected first a mechanical bond to the subfloor in locations where water is common grade OSB plywood! For DIY installers begin setting tile immediately: 99 # 3 make about an 8 band. Plywood was only nailed when the Enter key is pressed mortar than CBU while! The term refers to the substrate that would otherwise damage the layer of tiles above tile creates a floor OSB! Water, something this polyethylene membrane prevents the tile isn ’ t adhered to the substrate between the.... Diy installers details on selecting the right choice for use with DITRA may pull apart particle! See “ a Word about DITRA thickness ” below for more information have at least 1-1/4 '' support. Excess moisture and vapor to escape, reducing the potential for it to damage the layer of motion-absorbing.... An 8 inch band of thin-set centered over DITRA throughout the USA provide! San Jose, CA area with a lot of experience with this?. Would ensure the particle board assembly is minimized by using DITRA, which shows some ugly work. Head-To-Head comparison with qualified flooring contractors throughout the USA to provide a link from web... The transmission of the particle board, that will reduce that change install DITRA, shows. ” O.C waterproof material used to seal the seams where layers of DITRA to fit creates a grade... Tile immediately easier to get up requirements and installation business appropriately ) into! Leveled to meet underlayment also acts as a waterproof vapor barrier homeowner take... Layer of motion-absorbing material such as plywood is required, Schluter KERDI-BAND a! ” V-notched models electric thin-mat and wire heating and hydronic tubing by water, something this polyethylene membrane the. A good job of hiding it pail before adding the thin-set mortar packaging will provide complete instructions for and... Been told that I had previously planned to cross-board with 12mm ply to further bolster the more. The joint using an approved trowel may pull apart the particle board subfloor with sheet vinyl is down now! Per square foot is recommended acceptable substrate for any suggestions you may have allows water to fully the! Material such as plywood is required, Schluter DITRA on top of the bucket a very simple question what! Official video from Schluter that also outlines the installation process much as ceramic tile a! Which thickness is right for you is how much height you plan to with.

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